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Archive (no new threads please) >> Searching, Buying, Paying, Shipping, Storing >> Ebay and non-US bidders
(Message started by: Gryfalia on Sep 12th, 2003, 4:55pm)

Title: Ebay and non-US bidders
Post by Gryfalia on Sep 12th, 2003, 4:55pm

Something that I have noticed quite a bit here is that there are many Europeans and that it sticks in your craw a little that so many auctions have ĎUS bidders onlyí on them.

Well, my auctions donít tend too (I am Gryfalia on Ebay too..actually, I am Gryfalia pretty much anywhere but work and with the wife...), but I understand the reasons that people do this.  Itís not the extra shipping (buyer pays that), itís not so much the hassle (allowing overseas bidders gets higher bids usually), itís the fact that Paypal, a huge source of payments for so many auctions, doesnít protect the seller at all outside the US (and maybe Canada, not sure).

Last night I had well over $1K in auctions finish, several of which were won by people outside the US (2 in Sweden, 1 in France, 1 in Canada and 2 more elsewhere).  They paid by Paypal, which is great, but if they get the product and decide to charge back their credit cards, Paypal wonít support me at all.  I will have to fight with a credit card company (sometimes) and deal with it.  Can they do the same thing in the US?  Yes, but in the US I have Paypal protections and my behind is less in risk.

The good news is that this hasnít once happened to me, but the first time it does I am going to become a cynical bastige too.

I do understand, of course, that BUYERS from Europe and elsewhere run similar risks.  Paying and not getting the product.  But I know that I am legit, the problem is I canít be sure they are..;-)  One thing I am going to have to start doing on high value international orders is ALWAYS make the bidder pay for a return receipt. The problem is that this isnít cheap.  Of course, the other option is to only take money orders from overseas, but that takes forever and no one is happy.

So, if I have a problem with the auction from Sweden and Italy and Spain, anyone out there who can break a knee-cap or two for me?  Hehe...

Just some musings as I package this stuff up..


Title: Re: Ebay and non-US bidders
Post by l0qii on Sep 12th, 2003, 5:19pm

I've been accepting international PayPal payment for years, and never had any problem with charge backs. In fact I've only had one problem ever, and it was from within the US (turned out they used a stolen credit card, all I lost was $8, and it took PayPal about 2 months to take their money back). I can understand if your auctions are for hundreds or thousands of dollars, that you want to be protected, but I don't think it's much of an issue when dealing with smaller stuff. I feel that the payoff for opening up to a wider range of bidders outweighs by far the risk of losing money on a small sale.

One other note, while return receipts are good, I've only ever received back about half of the ones that I've sent out, even though everything was delivered fine. One one time I RECIEVED a package in my mailbox with a return receipt still attached to it, that the mailman did not remove. So they are not very reliable.

Title: Re: Ebay and non-US bidders
Post by tap4black on Sep 13th, 2003, 1:19am

Look into money orders for buyers outside the US if you are concerned.  They are supported by Western Union and typically arrive in 3-5 days after the buyer purchases the payment.  The best thing about this, other than you getting guaranteed funds, is that the buyer is responsible for paying the 3% fee for the money order instead of it coming out of your total.

Title: Re: Ebay and non-US bidders
Post by dry_cereal on Sep 13th, 2003, 3:39am

you made 1k off magic cards in 1 week??
do you do this for a living, or did you sell off some of your power?  Teach me the ways.

Title: Re: Ebay and non-US bidders
Post by rgerards on Sep 13th, 2003, 12:31pm

I lost $1200 to a guy on ebay (icymanshan). I had a hard time getting it back from my credit card company because paypal could not refund.


Title: Re: Ebay and non-US bidders
Post by AvatarOfWoe on Sep 13th, 2003, 1:47pm

Gryfalia :
i'm italian and ... yes i can break a knee-cap or two for you if you need ...  ;D.
I buy regularly on Ebay and often in the United States - my id is marlong_69 - and all the sellers are enthusiastic of me, reading the feedbacks. I always pay with paypal and you trust me is only a issue of confidence.
Until today only two times I have paid and I have not had the cards. Paypal don't protect me, i know and Ebay too. I've lost a hundred of dollars in this way.
But it is a risk that you face in the moment in which you decide to acquire in the United States.
For example You do not know how many seller secretly load many dollars in shipping costs.
I, in order to discover them, always ask the shiping costs knowing them in advance.
So all this in order to make to understand you as it is difficult for all, and not only for the seller, to make purchases on ebay.
Finally In my country is very difficult charge back money from credit card; if I spold over 1K of dollars I would take to all the necessary precautions to the good resolution of the transaction.
So, i ask you .... you can break a knee-cap or two for me
if i need ?  ;D

Title: Re: Ebay and non-US bidders
Post by Charlie on Sep 13th, 2003, 3:02pm

Yes, a seller in US asked me so much information before shipping to me... And there isn't even money orders in Asia

Title: Re: Ebay and non-US bidders
Post by sylvanstu on Sep 13th, 2003, 4:13pm

I personally have stopped selling on e-bay to many rip offs from all over U.S. and abroad I used to cringe when ever I won an auction from Canada never knew if I would recieve cards also on motl first 2 trades ever made there i sent cards and both times I got ripped off both times canadians. so far here in this forum it has been great buying and trading and some of the people have even thrown in extra's. I now look for cards on Cardshark  for buying fixed prices and so far no rip offs

Title: Re: Ebay and non-US bidders
Post by Gryfalia on Sep 15th, 2003, 6:19pm

Thanks for the feedback everyone.  I am just being wimpy, partially because these aren't my cards that I am selling off.  For right now I am allowing Overseas bidders, but still playing around with payment options.

As to HOW I got so much stuff to sell, well, a friend of mine who is an insane collector has me selling off his 20+ moxes, 10+ power blue, 7 Librarys, 20 Mana drains, 12 Abysses, 8 Moats, etc for him (oh yes, and 403 dual lands).  He gets a set amount of money, then we split anything I get above that.  Personally I stopped playing Type 1 several years ago (like, 6) because I despised the silliness of it so much.  Of course, I have built a deck out of his cards just for giggles while I sell the rest off, but it's designed as a horrible deck (3 triskelions, 2 copy artifacts and 3 clones for kill cards), that uses all the power cards just to have a fighting chance..;-)

And I live in Illinois and until recently was a high level judge, so if you have any troubles with people here, there's a reasonable chance that I know them.  I am willing to do violence for a good cause...

Anyway, thanks for your input everyone, I will try to not be such a wimp in the future..;-)


Title: Re: Ebay and non-US bidders
Post by Erl00 on Sep 15th, 2003, 6:22pm

on 09/12/03 at 16:55:09, Gryfalia wrote:
Last night I had well over $1K in auctions finish, several of which were won by people outside the US (2 in Sweden, 1 in France, 1 in Canada and 2 more elsewhere).


So, if I have a problem with the auction from Sweden and Italy and Spain, anyone out there who can break a knee-cap or two for me? †Hehe...

*Spots France in the countries in which some buyers are living*
*Does NOT spot France in the countries where breaking a knee-cap could be required*

I really appreciate you tend to say that my fellow French comrades won't ever try to rip you off :D
However, if you have any issue with a French buyer, please let me know, I'll be glad to try to help.

And, as Cardhaus said, you can ask people to pay through Bidpay. It's useful only when your auctions end at quite high prices because it costs a minimum of $5.
So I don't think any non-US person will bid on a $5 cards if there are shipping costs and also a $5 charge for paying ...
However, for expensive items, it's fast and secure for both parties.
Regarding fees, I tend to disagree a bit with Cardhaus, it's a null sum. As a bidder, if I want to spend 100 on something, I will either bid 100 if I can pay through Paypal or bid only 95 if I can only pay through Bidpay. So whoever finally bares the fees, the money you get should remain the same.

Anyway, I wanted to make one additional point about this discussion:

I definitely think that fraud, mail loss, issues of any kind are competely part of the online trading business. If I sum-up what I lost due to: (i) rip-offs, (ii) mail loss, (iii) mail loss because I stupidly provided a wrong zip code, (iv) mail theft and (v) unresolved cases, I end up with having lost about 500 euros during the past two years. It's about 5% of my spendings during this period.
5% loss / non paying cutomers / theft is a normal ratio in any business. I see no reason why selling / trading online shall not stick to this rule.
When French friends ask me to purchase a specific card for them on eBay US because they don't have a CC or are just afraid to use their CC to purchase something online, I now systematically charge 5% for "risk handling"


EDITs: Typos, typos, typos, and I'm tired of correcting them, many must remain, sorry ...

Title: Re: Ebay and non-US bidders
Post by Gryfalia on Sep 15th, 2003, 6:25pm

Sheesh, maybe I should just sell cards to people here, would save me a lot in Ebay fees..;-)

Back in 'the day' when I was selling off my own power cards, it was all money orders, unless someone was completely nuts and sent cash (had it done quite a few times, often from France actually).


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