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normalbrains
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T&T's Bad Selling Practices
« on: Nov 5th, 2004, 12:35am »
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Check out this page on their site:
 
http://www.trollandtoad.com/p114548.html
 
We all know from a fellow board member's experience opening 3 of these boxes that Troll and Toad's Legends boxes contain no Mana Drains (due to a well known printing error). Not only does T&T not explain this VERY important fact, they even list mana drain as one of the prize cards in the set. In fact, they list it first. Does anybody think this a bad business practice? They know about the drain situation. When spending $1500 id like to know if the best card in the set doesnt exist. Especially if they know. Also, I just got an email from T&T touting a 15% discount on Legends packs, so they are actively advertising these packs and boxes.
 
what do you think?
 
« Last Edit: Nov 5th, 2004, 12:36am by normalbrains » IP Logged

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Re: T&T's Bad Selling Practices
« Reply #1 on: Nov 5th, 2004, 12:42am »
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I got that email too.  
 
I also noticed they are out of a lot of items, and *everything* is overpriced.
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Re: T&T's Bad Selling Practices
« Reply #2 on: Nov 5th, 2004, 1:55am »
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What I think is that the Legends set does not contain 145 cards  Roll Eyes
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Re: T&T's Bad Selling Practices
« Reply #3 on: Nov 5th, 2004, 2:09am »
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for those who don't know about the printing error...
 
Quote:
Due to a sorting error in June 1994, prior to packaging, all uncommon Legends cards were divided into two groups. As a result, whole booster boxes were filled with duplicates of only one group of uncommon cards. In response, Wizards of the Coast published a list of all affected cards in The Duelist magazine issue #2 and offered to replace sent-in cards from one group with the same amount of cards from the other group, chosen by the customer. No more than two copies of a card could be sent in, and the offer was limited to 100 cards per person.
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Re: T&T's Bad Selling Practices
« Reply #4 on: Nov 5th, 2004, 4:06am »
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on Nov 5th, 2004, 1:55am, TnT wrote:
Simply the best magic expansion ever! Sure, some of the cards look weak, especially today with 50,000 other cards out there. But they all just look so damn cool! Remember this was the first expansion with gold (multicolor) cards and enchant worlds. Awesome!  
  -- By from OH on January 08, 2003

I bet they wrote this themselves  
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Re: T&T's Bad Selling Practices
« Reply #5 on: Nov 5th, 2004, 5:15am »
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So where do I find the list of what Uncommons fall under what print run?
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Re: T&T's Bad Selling Practices
« Reply #6 on: Nov 5th, 2004, 1:30pm »
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i have duelist 2 i can't find it anywhere
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Re: T&T's Bad Selling Practices
« Reply #7 on: Nov 5th, 2004, 3:51pm »
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Look at this pdf:
 
http://www.crystalkeep.com/magic/lists/files/list-lg.pdf
 
and read near the top, it explains how to read it and see which uncommons are on which half..
 
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Re: T&T's Bad Selling Practices
« Reply #8 on: Nov 5th, 2004, 6:33pm »
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Interesting...
 
I never knew about that printing error (but then, I only purchased Italian Legends in the past).
 
Are you saying it's possible to know which uncommons group is included in the box looking at it from the outside when it's still sealed, and if so how ?
 
Maybe I missed something  Tongue
 
Ende73
 
PS - Not defending T&T here, how can you defend someone who writes that Legends has 145 cards ?  
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Re: T&T's Bad Selling Practices
« Reply #9 on: Nov 5th, 2004, 6:56pm »
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on Nov 5th, 2004, 12:35am, normalbrains wrote:
Check out this page on their site:
 
http://www.trollandtoad.com/p114548.html
 
We all know from a fellow board member's experience opening 3 of these boxes that Troll and Toad's Legends boxes contain no Mana Drains (due to a well known printing error).  
[...snip...]
Does anybody think this a bad business practice?  
[...snip...]
what do you think?
 

 
I like how no one has actually addressed the issue at hand. There is a law in the US called Caveat Emptor
 
 Caveat emptor [L.] (Law), let the purchaser beware, i. e., let him examine the article he is buying, and act on his own judgment.
 
there's a good essay on it here http://www.libertyhaven.com/theoreticalorphilosophicalissues/austrianeco nomics/caveatemp.html.
 
Basically, it's up to you the buyer to know the item you are buying, and know the history surrounding the item you are buying. If you are unsure, ask the seller the appropriate questions. It comes down to a debate of "business ethics" vs personal morals. At most, it would be good karma for them to put a warning about this on the website, if it's indeed true about all their boxes, but they are not required to.
 
Knowing what I know, I would not buy one of these boxes. I will however continue to do other business with them.
« Last Edit: Nov 5th, 2004, 6:59pm by l0qii » IP Logged

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Re: T&T's Bad Selling Practices
« Reply #10 on: Nov 5th, 2004, 7:35pm »
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Quote:
I like how no one has actually addressed the issue at hand. There is a law in the US called Caveat Emptor

as no one has suggested filing a lawsuite against trollandtoad, i'm not really sure that the mentioning of that law is all that relevent, actually Wink
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Re: T&T's Bad Selling Practices
« Reply #11 on: Nov 5th, 2004, 7:56pm »
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His question was "Does anybody think this a bad business practice?" And the answer is no. Not because I don't think it is, but because the economic system T&T operates in has formally declared that it is not. Sorry, I didn't mean to imply anything about suing.
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Re: T&T's Bad Selling Practices
« Reply #12 on: Nov 5th, 2004, 10:02pm »
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on Nov 5th, 2004, 6:33pm, ende73 wrote:
Are you saying it's possible to know which uncommons group is included in the box looking at it from the outside when it's still sealed, and if so how ?

 
They probably mixed 'Legions' and 'Legends' up (I've done the same to my embarassment).
 
Anyway, no, there is no way to tell them from the outside.  BUT, let's say you purchased 5 cases from some random distributor.  Odds are STUNNINGLY good that every single box in those cases are all on the same side of the divide.
 
Opening one pack will normally answer the question.  Plus I seem to recall that there was some sort of Quality Control slip of paper in the boxes that would help ID them too (not 100% sure of my memory on that part).
 
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Re: T&T's Bad Selling Practices
« Reply #13 on: Nov 5th, 2004, 10:17pm »
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on Nov 5th, 2004, 10:02pm, Gryfalia wrote:

 
 Plus I seem to recall that there was some sort of Quality Control slip of paper in the boxes that would help ID them too (not 100% sure of my memory on that part).
 
Gryfalia

 
At the bottom of the box should be a little piece of paper with a number on it. I'm not sure what you can do with that number though. Whatever happened to those? Is all that info just on the case label now?
 
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Re: T&T's Bad Selling Practices
« Reply #14 on: Nov 6th, 2004, 2:55am »
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A little common sense is needed here folks.  
 
First off, you cannot tell if the Legends box you have is an "A" or "B" box by looking at the outside of the package.  The small paper ticket is also on the inside of the box so that theory is out also.  Since sealed boxes of older cards sell for quite a premium over loose packs it would not be in the best interest of the seller to open it to check the contents.  Since last I checked, my distributor had been sold out of Legends cases since about 1994.  Almost all the boxes left unopened are bought 1 or 2 at a time from private collectors so there is no way you can tell if they are A or B versions.
 
Instead of berating T&T here on the forum for an honest mistake, why don't you try and contact them about their typographical error in the listing of 145 cards.  
 
From the Troll and Toad website:
Quote:
Of the 145 cards in the Legends set, the most famous cards are: Mana Drain, The Abyss, and Moat.

How is this misleading?  It states nothing but facts (other than the typo about the size of the set) as to what could be found in the packs and boxes they sell.
 
Len
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