Magic Library Forum - Print Page

Magic Library Forum (http://magiclibrary.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl)

Archive (no new threads please) >> Member Information >> the best prerelease card
(Message started by: Ralph Herold on Sep 2^nd, 2004, 1:23pm)

Title: the best prerelease card
Post by Ralph Herold on Sep 2^nd, 2004, 1:23pm

Since a discussion has already been started in another thread, I wanted to redirect it here: What is the best prerelease card so far from a competitive perspective?

I have no definite choice, but I can at least reduce my selection to the following cards: Questing Phelddagrif, Laquatus's Champion, Glory, Rukh Egg. Note that I consider none of these cards overly strong, but I think there are no better cards available as prerelease cards.

Title: Re: the best prerelease card
Post by van8888 on Sep 2^nd, 2004, 1:24pm

Lightning Dragon

Title: Re: the best prerelease card
Post by Thrond on Sep 2^nd, 2004, 1:33pm

Treetop Village, Accumulated Knowledge

Title: Re: the best prerelease card
Post by Ralph Herold on Sep 2^nd, 2004, 1:37pm

Thrond: These are not prerelease cards.

Title: Re: the best prerelease card
Post by johnstown713 on Sep 2^nd, 2004, 2:01pm

Possibly Lightning Dragon although Glory was a very strong card.

Title: Re: the best prerelease card
Post by bigfatkitty on Sep 2^nd, 2004, 2:27pm

By far...Shield of Kaldra!

No...Wait...Revenant!

Oh crap...I forgot about Overtaker!

Prerelease cards are mostly crap with a few exceptions. If I really have to vote I'll pick False Prophet since he did me so well in a Sneak Attack deck. ;D

Title: Re: the best prerelease card
Post by misterpid on Sep 2^nd, 2004, 4:29pm

Raging Kavu was always my favorite.

Title: Re: the best prerelease card
Post by mintcollector on Sep 2^nd, 2004, 4:56pm

Lightning Dragon

Title: Re: the best prerelease card
Post by flatmatt on Sep 2^nd, 2004, 7:25pm

Lightning Dragon probably was the most competitive prerelease card, though Laquatus's Champion, Glory, and Sword of Kaldra each saw a fair amount of play in our casual group.

Title: Re: the best prerelease card
Post by DrSchnitzel on Sep 2^nd, 2004, 7:57pm

My top three is:

1. Laquatus's Champion
2. Glory
3. Ryusei, the Falling Star

what' s good about the lightning dragon?
8 mana for a 4/4 flyer??

Title: Re: the best prerelease card
Post by van8888 on Sep 2^nd, 2004, 7:59pm

what *isn't* good with Lightning Dragon? ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: the best prerelease card
Post by DrSchnitzel on Sep 2^nd, 2004, 8:03pm

1. too expensive
2. to vulnerable
3. bounceable
4. two rounds shutdown

Title: Re: the best prerelease card
Post by Gryfalia on Sep 2^nd, 2004, 10:50pm

Lightning Dragon, then Glory

Gryfalia

Title: Re: the best prerelease card
Post by van8888 on Sep 2^nd, 2004, 10:54pm

Sorry, DrSchnitzel, you're outvoted 5-1. ;)

Title: Re: the best prerelease card
Post by Muldoon on Sep 3^rd, 2004, 12:03am

They should have hired amy weber again to make the questing pheldagriff artwork; that one really puts a shame to the pheldagriff name and general idea :P If she had drawn it it'd be my first choice ;)
As for now, I'll join the crowd who likes the lightning dragon the most ::)

Title: Re: the best prerelease card
Post by sylvanstu on Sep 3^rd, 2004, 2:12am

my favorite the lightning dragon ;D

Title: Re: the best prerelease card
Post by Vilan on Sep 3^rd, 2004, 2:52am

Either Laquatus's Champion or Glory. Honorable mention to Silent Specter.

Title: Re: the best prerelease card
Post by coolio on Sep 3^rd, 2004, 4:20am

on 09/02/04 at 19:57:04, DrSchnitzel wrote:

what' s good about the lightning dragon?
8 mana for a 4/4 flyer??

2RR is 8? wow.. my math must be REALLY off.. when did R = 3?

are we doing some really weird math here?

most playable wise? glory got a bit abused in madness splashing for the white, wasnt playing during tempest thru legacy, so I'll cant say lightning dragon. I've seen prophet abused in sneak decks.. laq champ was in like a semi casual deck.. raging kavu was in a very good block deck in '01... i guess it depends on time and format

©

Title: Re: the best prerelease card
Post by silver.paladin on Sep 3^rd, 2004, 5:13am

[quote author=coolio link=board=off-topic;num=1094124198;start=15#17 date=09/03/04 at 04:20:08]

2RR is 8? wow.. my math must be REALLY off.. when did R = 3?

are we doing some really weird math here?
quote]
Sorry Coolio, but please remember, the Lightning Dragon had ECHO, so though it cost 2RR to bring it out initially, it cost an additional 2RR to keep it following the next round, so in essence it is an 8mana card, unless of course it is only to be used for the one round.
So, I guess you cannot say that R = 3; rather R = 2 and 2 = 4.

Title: Re: the best prerelease card
Post by van8888 on Sep 3^rd, 2004, 5:29am

yeah, but its not 8 ALL AT ONCE, so it doesnt count like that...

Title: Re: the best prerelease card
Post by dry_cereal on Sep 3^rd, 2004, 8:13am

or, think of it as 4 mana for 4 damage

Title: Re: the best prerelease card
Post by AXIOS on Sep 3^rd, 2004, 9:26am

what's wrong with the dirtcowl wurm :-/

Title: Re: the best prerelease card
Post by Perruche87 on Sep 3^rd, 2004, 1:47pm

go lighting dragons!

Title: Re: the best prerelease card
Post by fvzappa on Sep 3^rd, 2004, 7:26pm

Raging Kavu or Lightning Dragon. I'm leaning more towards Raging Kavu since I have a misprinted prerelease one ::).

Title: Re: the best prerelease card
Post by Ralph Herold on Sep 3^rd, 2004, 7:37pm

I would also like to hear an explanation of why you think the Lightning Dragon is good (in comparison to the other cards). While I at least see a window of usage for the cards I named at the beginning of this thread in semi-competitive decks, I see no such use for the Lightning Dragon. DrSchnitzel's arguments have merit in my opinion, as I also think that due to its high cost of twice 4 mana, its lack of Haste and protection from creature removal, and its mediocre body of 4/4, it is inferior to enough other creatures not to be played at all. Of course it can be pumped, but this should in a standard situation not become a significant feature anytime before the second round after the round where the card has been played.

Title: Re: the best prerelease card
Post by van8888 on Sep 3^rd, 2004, 8:01pm

I think the distinction is thus: There are a TON of better cards, but as far as prerelease cards, it seems better than most of the others.

Title: Re: the best prerelease card
Post by mintcollector on Sep 3^rd, 2004, 8:19pm

on 09/03/04 at 19:37:22, Ralph Herold wrote:

Ralph: The argument here is over what pre-release card is the best. My reasons for voting for the Lightning Dragon are simply that it is a 4/4 Flyer for 2RR (echo), that is pumpable. So you pay the cost of the Dragon, then simply pay it again, but hopefully have a 5th mana source that is red to pump the Dragon for a following attack the next turn for 5. Turns following that allow for the Dragon to deal massive dmg. I am not arguing that this card is the best card ever, but that it is at least superior to Glory or Laq. Champion. The Champion's cost can be prohibitive. For 6 mana you get a good card, but if I were playing a Dragon against you I would have already dealt you at least 8 dmg, but upwards of 15 dmg using nothing else but the Dragon and it's pump ability by time you drop him (unless you are playing some freaky graveyard recursion or anything else that can get him out via unorthodox means). Glory is a 3/3/ Flyer for 5 and it's ability is obly good if it is in the graveyard? Crap in my book. I even surveyed my co-worker who used to avidly play but does not anymore. Out of the 3 cards, he too picked the Dragon as the best card.

Instead of ripping the Dragon apart, I would like to hear your argument why Glory or Laq. Champion is better than the Dragon. No one here has argued that the Dragon is the best card ever made, but when it comes to the pre-release cards I still think it is the best playable card we have.

Title: Re: the best prerelease card
Post by psrex on Sep 3^rd, 2004, 9:12pm

I absolutely love Laquatus's Champion. I am running four in my reanimator deck and they've helped speed up kills quite a bit when combined with Living Death and Buried Alive. This is by far the best pre-release card in my opinion.

Title: Re: the best prerelease card
Post by mintcollector on Sep 3^rd, 2004, 11:09pm

on 09/03/04 at 21:12:55, psrex wrote:

As I said you need graveyard manipulation to make Laq. Champion viable. The Dragon is better imo.

Title: Re: the best prerelease card
Post by sylvanstu on Sep 4^th, 2004, 3:57am

on 09/03/04 at 20:19:47, mintcollector wrote:

I agree with Mike I also like to sneak attack it in and pump it bam ouch that hurt.
The only other prerelease card i ever play is the false prophet makes people think when you have a wrath on board you can kill yourself at any time

Title: Re: the best prerelease card
Post by Ralph Herold on Sep 5^th, 2004, 4:49pm

mintcollector: From my perspective, taken into consideration that Magic is a customizable game, a card which is decent in most decks is still inferior to a card which is weak in most decks, but excels in a specific deck. As a consequence, I do not see a deck where I would play a pumpable 4/4 flying creature for twice 4 mana, while I see decks for the cards I named:

Questing Phelddagrif: A versatile creature in a multiplayer environment with both evasion and protection abilities and a decent cost-to-P/T ratio.

Laquatus's Champion: A decent finisher card in a middle-speed heavy-black deck for an instant victory.

Glory: A superb support card in threshhold decks splashing white for creature protection and evasion.

Rukh Egg: A useful combo piece of mass destruction spells (e.g. Wildfire) which allows for an accelerated creature base rebuild.

On a side note, I might have underestimated the power level of False Prophet and consider adding it to my list retroactively.