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Topic: new Crazy Clowns token series (Read 826 times) |
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hammr7
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Re: new Crazy Clowns token series
« Reply #15 on: Sep 10th, 2004, 4:54am » |
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I don't know if this is the correct place for these comments. I want to reserve judgement on the new Crazy Clown tokens pending responses to questions that have already been asked by others (in particular the cardstock and finish). The one comment I will make is that low-production, premium price tokens should be numbered, since this is a huge deterent to reprinting or counterfeiting.
I'm more concerned about the frequency of token offerings than I am the cost of this (or other) specific sets. This will be the second Crazy Clown token set in four or five months, and at least the fourth "premium" token set geared toward the Rarities Forum since May. This is in addition to the other token sets that have been created by outside parties (most notably the Hong Kong Magic Club, Misty Mountains, Asia Magic, etc.) and offered or discussed in the forums since the first of the year.
I realize that some of the token sets have been channeled through the website as fundraisers. I am more than willing to help fund the Rarities web site, and on the earlier Crazy Clown and Neo-Token offerings have known (or assumed) that a reasonable portion of the proceeds went toward the site. I am less certain about the level of Rarities Forum support derived from subsequent token issuances, including this one.
At present the token market seems to be exploding in terms of offerings, and I don't know whether there is enough of a market to support all of them. This year it will cost more to get one of every offered token set than it will to get one of every Magic set offered (exclude autographed or customized tokens, and foil cards). This level of offerings at the existing prices cannot continue.
I realize most token sets have small production quantities. But many (including Crazy Clown) have counterfeiting issues that undermine price and demand. Some (notably the Hong Kong Magic Club set) are being reprinted (and who knows what the final production amounts will be). I was surprised to find that the Neo-Token set offered here was immediately re-issued outside the forum with slight modifications. And no one knows what the potential demand for "premium" tokens really is. As a result, we don't know the point where overproduction will diminish the desirability and price of all tokens, or how much prices could fall.
A similar situation happened in baseball cards in the 1980's (when Topps lost their monopoly on cards). Two major companies and a handful of smaller ones started production of competing sets, and the entire industry collapsed under excess inventories of current product offerings. Sets lost 90% of their original retail value, and after 15 years most still haven't recovered.
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victorcamp
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Re: new Crazy Clowns token series
« Reply #16 on: Sep 10th, 2004, 2:52pm » |
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The new set is beautiful. 
The only issue I have is that these tokens are always busty females! Isn't it about time we had a little diversity in the images? How about some muscled men? Surely the young male audiance could identify with some strapping males as well. 
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silver.paladin
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Re: new Crazy Clowns token series
« Reply #17 on: Sep 10th, 2004, 3:46pm » |
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on Sep 10th, 2004, 2:52pm, victorcamp wrote:
The new set is beautiful.
The only issue I have is that these tokens are always busty females! Isn't it about time we had a little diversity in the images? How about some muscled men? Surely the young male audiance could identify with some strapping males as well. |
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I veto this suggestion.  The busty females are quite fine, and this is a good place for them!!
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dry_cereal
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Re: new Crazy Clowns token series
« Reply #18 on: Sep 10th, 2004, 7:01pm » |
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I have the same concerns as hammr. I don't see why the cards should not be created, because I don't need to own every single one. However, if these are being ran as a perk for library members, the cost is far too much.
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Ralph Herold
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Re: new Crazy Clowns token series
« Reply #19 on: Sep 10th, 2004, 9:54pm » |
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Mr. Arai Jin is reading this thread with excitement and is happy to answer all your questions personally. Here is the original and unabridged version of the text he wrote to me:
Hi, My name is ARAI Jin. My Handle name is Arajin.(It is audible in Japan as alike "Aladdin".)
I am thankful to Mr.Jim and Mr.Ralph.
My English Skill is very poor. but I answer as much as possible.
I read your voice to use Machine translation.
Even if there is an unnatural mistranslation, I want you to allow.
first, I answer FAQ." Why "KALDRA","MYR","PENTAVITE" name is only Initial ?"
(write in Mr.dragsamou. Thanks! It is Perfect!)
Because these 3 Names are property of WOTC/Hasbro
So nobody else can used the Full name.
To Mr.Erl00
> The back, if it's the back which is shown in the middle of the announcement page, is more questionable.
Oh... A design on the back is confident.
Until now, it did not have the unified brand image. This back will become a brand image from now on.
> Also, I noticed that Jun Minagishi was not the sole artist in this set.
> Who are the other ones?
Let's be looking forward to it until you read a colophon.
> Anyway, congrats. It's a very nice set.
> I still don't get what a Pentavite is and I find Pentavites ugly
> (in general, not the token) but I do not play,
> which should explain why I can't understand ...
Although it is the reason, because I like a joke.
Everyone will use goblin and beast.
In order that the person who looked at the P.
He want to use P token,and He constructed "Pentavite" deck
and entry a tournament... don't you think that it is interesting?
To Mr.bigfatkitty
> I agree with everything Eric said. ?Except for the part about not knowing what the 'K' token was. ? And I like the backs. ?And I like the fact that different artists are featured. ?And I like Pentavites and find them very atractive.
Thanks. Now,Artists is writing the draft of the next token.
To Mr.dragsamou
> Do they have the same thickness as the 10 Th Series?
No, 10th is Exception. 11th is Printed by Kansai Art Printing Ltd.
> Do they have All of them Square corners as shown?
No,Token corners is round.
> Are they Laminated or Glossy or others?
Yes, Token Card is Polypropylene processing.
> What I like:
> That they have Flavor Text with a Symbol on the left ?
> Nice Colors ?
> Nice Design ?
> What I don't like:
> The Back ?
> Only 4 Jun Minagishi Tokens out of 12(2 are New)
> The less Limited feeling (over 4200 Tokens now) ?
An opinion is carried out to reference.
but,It is difficult to reduce printing number of sheets.
It is because the cost per sheet is mitigated by making number of sheets.
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Ralph Herold
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Re: new Crazy Clowns token series
« Reply #20 on: Sep 10th, 2004, 9:54pm » |
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Part 2:
To Mr.silver.paladin
> And lastly (maybe this thread is a good place to ask here),
> is there any idea that since Mr. Jin is continuing to create tokens,
> is he able/willing to do anything about all these counterfeiters??
> Especially this last one in Italy that commented to RG about them creating tokens,
> not to mention all the fakes coming out of Singapore.
> I can understand if he is not able to do anything about,
> but is he concerned about these actions,
> and has he tried, or thought about doing anything about this counterfeiting?
# ummm... It is too long text,Machine translation works no good.
1.It is a thing heard of for the first time to me.
2.My token card is seen from WoC and is the imitation of WoC's Token.
3.I do not understand the market value of the token card in the U.S.
Probably, I need to take correspondence, if the person who lost with the imitation is.
( However, I do not understand the U.S. law.
Can I assert a right about the imitation of an imitation ?)
To Mr.rg
> But what i love most: The flavor of the graphics for the different color type
> on the left of the textbox is wonderful.
Yes!! YesYes!! Praise the designer of a CardFrame !!
I like "Black" and "Artifact".
# Inside story: Initial design of "Artifact", The gear's number of sheets is 2.
I say "sorry, It's likes Urza's Saga" "What it"...Designer don't know Magic.
> Are there 350 sets including those already sold in japan ?
> How many were sold in japan ?
1.1st,I take "Comic Market".
...It hardly sold. It was judged by the customer that it was too expensive.
2.2nd,I participated in GP Nagoya as a judge.
I have given to a judge's friends and the staff of sideboard on-line.
1st+2nd about 30-35packs, and I think It never appears on the U.S.market.
> I agree, tokens are getting expensive.
> Nevertheless they are sold at such prices so if we want some ....
Ummmm...
If I do not have a main occupation and it will sell by mail order directly,
it may sell at a low price. However, it is impossible.
A check is not common in Japan.
If it remits to Japan from the U.S., the direction of it will become comparatively high-priced.
I do not have time to return to every customer, either.
At present, I think that the present system is the most desirable.
A new token will come out by KAMIGAWA.
Which you want token is ?! and Which artist to draw ?!
I want to hear the U.S. customer's voice.
Thanks,
ARAI Jin
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silver.paladin
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Re: new Crazy Clowns token series
« Reply #21 on: Sep 10th, 2004, 10:53pm » |
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Thank you Mr. Arai Jin,
My vote for new Kamigawa is a Dragon. Kamigawa reminds me of Far East stories, and the Dragon is a powerful spirit as I understand it. Therefore, I think either a Dragon or a Dragon Spirit would be a great new token.
Also, would you be allowed or able to produce a Shichifukujin Dragon token? That would be a nice treat.
EDIT: reading RGs reply below mine here, I would also like to say that the Elemental from the 10th Series was definitely one of my favorites. It was a different kind of design, and very nice.
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| « Last Edit: Sep 11th, 2004, 12:56am by silver.paladin » |
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rg
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Re: new Crazy Clowns token series
« Reply #22 on: Sep 10th, 2004, 11:56pm » |
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Thanks for all the informations Arai Jin 
As for the new tokens my suggestions:
I would love to get those already known Kamigawa Tokens:
- Rat (black)
- Illusion (blue)
- Copy Creature (yes, again
 )
- Elemental (Green)
- Spirit (colorless)
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victorcamp
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Re: new Crazy Clowns token series
« Reply #23 on: Sep 11th, 2004, 7:54am » |
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I think it's time for a Rat token, since they're back with a vengance in Kamigawa!
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TerraFrost
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Re: new Crazy Clowns token series
« Reply #24 on: Sep 11th, 2004, 11:43pm » |
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| However, if these are being ran as a perk for library members, the cost is far too much. |
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i agree. i suppose, though, that i'm not exactly an unbiased source of opinion, as i'm a full time college student, without a degree to get a good paying job (because i'm trying to get that degree, right now ), but with expenses that i wouldn't even have if i did have that good paying job. (dry_cereal is in the same boat)
and in any case, i'm not really sure i'd call it a perk, persay, since i think the only real people who are interested in these cards post here, anyway.
although that said, another discount of sorts that could be offered is that those who contribute to the magic rarities community (and not just the site) could get additional discounts! (ie. $10.00 for contributing to the board, $10.00 for contributing to the community?)
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dry_cereal
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Re: new Crazy Clowns token series
« Reply #25 on: Sep 11th, 2004, 11:59pm » |
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or, one of the wealthier collectors who always complains about not having enough to collect could just buy sets for us.
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silver.paladin
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new Crazy Clowns token series
« Reply #26 on: Sep 15th, 2004, 5:40am » |
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A question I have, as I do not see it being mentioned anywhere on this thread:
All the tokens appear to have a 'symbol' of some kind on the left hand side of the text box, so as to denote what kind/color of token it is - with one exception. Kaldra. Why is that? I thought the Kaldra was an artifact, and since the other artifact tokens have a symbol, should this not also have the symbol?
Does this then mean that the images scanned on the site are not the final image, or is there something special about the Kaldra?
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rg
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Re: new Crazy Clowns token series
« Reply #27 on: Sep 15th, 2004, 9:38am » |
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on Sep 15th, 2004, 5:40am, silver.paladin wrote:
A question I have, as I do not see it being mentioned anywhere on this thread:
All the tokens appear to have a 'symbol' of some kind on the left hand side of the text box, so as to denote what kind/color of token it is - with one exception. Kaldra. Why is that? I thought the Kaldra was an artifact, and since the other artifact tokens have a symbol, should this not also have the symbol?
Does this then mean that the images scanned on the site are not the final image, or is there something special about the Kaldra? |
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Kaldra is not an artifact, it's colorless
"If you control Equipment named Helm of Kaldra, Sword of Kaldra, and Shield of Kaldra, put a 4/4 colorless Avatar Legend creature token named Kaldra into play and attach those Equipment to it."
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| « Last Edit: Sep 15th, 2004, 9:43am by rg » |
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silver.paladin
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Re: new Crazy Clowns token series
« Reply #28 on: Sep 15th, 2004, 3:44pm » |
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on Sep 15th, 2004, 9:38am, rg wrote:
Kaldra is not an artifact, it's colorless
"If you control Equipment named Helm of Kaldra, Sword of Kaldra, and Shield of Kaldra, put a 4/4 colorless Avatar Legend creature token named Kaldra into play and attach those Equipment to it." |
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Ahh, thanks rg, now I get it. Yes, there are 3 pieces of artifact/equipment, but by combining them, a token creature is created. Why did I not realize that before?? 
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Ralph Herold
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Re: new Crazy Clowns token series
« Reply #29 on: Sep 16th, 2004, 8:43pm » |
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More comments from Mr. Arai Jin:
I think that The relation between a price and scarcity value is the same as the relation of the both ends of a balance.
I can make more cheep token cards. ( Mass production,The fall of a printing level,Reduction in a kind,card couner is not round )
but,I think that It is not scarcity value.
I want to make more kinds of cards at a low price, and to provide the people of the larger range with them.
Now, I am under trial and error.
I do not consider the reprint plan.
But,it does not carry out making the same thing repeatedly. Because, the direction to make also dislikes mannerism.
I will not break down the present route (it is the quality of image of comics and animation, and personifies and feminizes).because,a smart picture, a fearful picture, and the picture like a genuine article are already made in many shops(& WoC) .
# If WoC will made feminizes Token, I leave and escape. "Surrender."
About the difference in the culture of east and west, and depiction of a dragon, since there is subject to the extent that a book can be written, it withholds.
It is the consciousness of people of Japan and the US, and a difference first about a Dragon is a "Color". In the US, a dragon will be red. On the other hand, it is green in Japan. The green in which the dragon which is a nature's spokesman imagined Mountains & Forests matches most.
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