 Author |
Topic: Foiled P9 and OTHER STUFF! (Read 98 times) |
|
Aragorn
New Member
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Posts: 8
|
 |
Foiled P9 and OTHER STUFF!
« on: Jun 17th, 2005, 12:29am » |
 Quote  Modify |
Hello
|
| « Last Edit: Jun 17th, 2005, 5:51am by Aragorn » |
 IP Logged |
|
|
|
motorcitymagic
Senior Member
Voted Best-loved Forum Member of 2004.
 
Gender: 
Posts: 584
|
|
Re: Foiled P9 and OTHER STUFF!
« Reply #1 on: Jun 17th, 2005, 3:06am » |
Quote Modify |
Reported to both eBay and WotC for counterfeiting.
|
|
IP Logged |
MTG Archive - a free online encyclopedia devoted to Magic
|
|
|
normalbrains
Full Member
dildo extraordinaire
Posts: 374
|
|
Re: Foiled P9 and OTHER STUFF!
« Reply #2 on: Jun 17th, 2005, 12:12pm » |
Quote Modify |
i realize this an archive for old posts so please excuse this post, but i must say something to MCM.
You're a jackass.
You know this is a community for people who collect magic oddities of all types. You know for a fact that someone here would have liked to buy this man's wares. Personally i have no use for foiled P9. But what if i did? I really hate people like you. Does anybody have a pic of MCM? Im going to make a bootleg MCM card and send it to everybody. Seriously, if you have a pic of MCM please PM me.
|
| « Last Edit: Jun 17th, 2005, 12:16pm by normalbrains » |
IP Logged |
My H/W: http://www.magictraders.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/188717.html
|
|
|
hammr7
Moderator
Full Member
Hero in my own mind!
Gender:
Posts: 460
|
|
Re: Foiled P9 and OTHER STUFF!
« Reply #3 on: Jun 17th, 2005, 2:21pm » |
Quote Modify |
Normalbrains,
I'm sorry, but on this one I have to agree with MCM. I would have already closed and possibly deleted the post, except that I defer to Ralph on these decisions. I've sent my concerns to Ralph, and was simply waiting for his reply.
There are two reasons for my concern. One is ethical, and the other is pragmatic.
Ethically, this seller is stealing the intellectual property of Wizards of the Coast. He is doing so only for his own profit. He is making illegal proxies. Just because he has a "gimmick" (foil) shouldn't make him any different than any other maker of proxies, especially those that steal the exact artwork.
Pragmatically, the Rarities site has achieved a level of acceptance in the Magic "universe", including tacit acceptance by Wizards. If we start showcasing and supporting active counterfeiters, by allowing them to openly advertise in our forum, then that acceptance will disappear.
As for your concern that certain members may want his product, if they do they can search him out elsewhere. I would never put a single member's wants (especially illegal wants) over the longer term viability of this site.
I see no difference between this guy and a person who would steal someone else's collection. Both offer stolen goods. I wouldn't knowingly deal with either of them. The only difference is that I know that the proxies are stolen! If this wasn't the case, MCM's statement wouldn't bother you. It can only bother you because you know that if Wizards takes an interest this guy will be shut down in a hurry.
|
|
IP Logged |
Where have all the Magic sticker sets gone?
|
|
|
normalbrains
Full Member
dildo extraordinaire
Posts: 374
|
|
Re: Foiled P9 and OTHER STUFF!
« Reply #4 on: Jun 18th, 2005, 1:33pm » |
Quote Modify |
"Pragmatically, the Rarities site has achieved a level of acceptance in the Magic "universe", including tacit acceptance by Wizards. If we start showcasing and supporting active counterfeiters, by allowing them to openly advertise in our forum, then that acceptance will disappear. "
i understand that and its your job to shut down the thread, but if you werent a mod, would you have said anything to the guy? would you have reported him to both ebay and wotc (and probably several other organizations and watchlists)? its foiled P9. nobodys gonna think its real wotc material. mcm's actions usually just bother me in general and i think i was in a bad mood last night. whatever.
|
|
IP Logged |
My H/W: http://www.magictraders.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/188717.html
|
|
|
normalbrains
Full Member
dildo extraordinaire
Posts: 374
|
|
Re: Foiled P9 and OTHER STUFF!
« Reply #5 on: Jun 18th, 2005, 1:34pm » |
Quote Modify |
plus you allow all kind of trading in bootleg magic stuff.
|
|
IP Logged |
My H/W: http://www.magictraders.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/188717.html
|
|
|
hammr7
Moderator
Full Member
Hero in my own mind!
Gender:
Posts: 460
|
|
Re: Foiled P9 and OTHER STUFF!
« Reply #6 on: Jun 18th, 2005, 10:00pm » |
Quote Modify |
Normalbrains,
I would appreciate you elaborating on "bootleg" stuff.
There are items on the site that eventually crossed the lines to the point where Wizards took issue (minagishi tokens that incorporated a mana symbol, middle ages stickers that incorporated the game concept). In both cases, Wizards issued "cease and desist" orders which were obeyed by the makers of these items. The remaining copies are collected for historical significance. This is a totaly different situation from a current vendor offering custom order duplicates of famous and powerful (and usually expensive) Magic cards.
There are items, like alt. 4th, which were manufactured under contract by Wizards. While most were destroyed, Wizards has been very evasive about whether any of these were ever "unknowingly" released to the public under the direction of Wizards.
On the forum, I am an adamant opponent of almost anything illegal, Most tokens aren't illegal, because Wizards doesn't have exclusive rights to these (except some of the newer categories). Nor are 3-D cards, which are constructed of many real cards. I am tolerant of modified real cards, so long as the modification is not a photocopy (or equivalent ) of a different real card pasted on top.
I have seen threads discussing counterfeit items, but haven;t seen blatent offers like those fro Aragorn. If you know of other "illegal" items (under the legal concept of illegal, not some subjective concept of the term) being offered on the forum, please let me know. I'll be similarly vocal against them as well. I wasn't as publicly vocal when I wasn't a mod, because I didn't feel it my place. However, I did immediately let my feelings be known to Ralph.
As far as eBay is concerned, I have done my share to rid it of illegal sellers. I have no qualms about trying to get counterfeit items and sellers kicked off. In the long run they can only hurt all who collect magic cards. Just take a look at what counterfeiting has done to Minagishi tokens. The rarest items, which used to cost well over $100, now go for under $20. Except for hard-core collectors, everyone else lost interest when the magnitude of the counterfeiting became apparant.
|
|
IP Logged |
Where have all the Magic sticker sets gone?
|
|
|
normalbrains
Full Member
dildo extraordinaire
Posts: 374
|
|
Re: Foiled P9 and OTHER STUFF!
« Reply #7 on: Jun 19th, 2005, 3:13am » |
Quote Modify |
i was referring to minagishi and havoc the bothering type stuff. there is a difference between these and someone currently producing bootleg cards for profit, but i dont think anybody collects these for their "historical signifigance".
|
|
IP Logged |
My H/W: http://www.magictraders.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/188717.html
|
|
|
|
Magic Library
Home
Help
Search
Login
Register
Notification
Reply
Send Topic
Print