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Siddhartha
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vintage collectors
« on: Oct 22nd, 2004, 9:01pm »
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Question for all you vintage lovers out there:
 
I'm an amateur webdeveloper (have done a couple commissioned projects) and I've been looking for a fun personal project. Been thinking of doing a vintage mtg website as an informational resource (much like this site does for rarities).  My question is whether there is any call for a site like this. I haven't found any really good vintage-only resources out there--is this perception correct, and if so, is this a hole that needs filling?
 
Finally, if such a website existed, what would you like to see on it? I appreciate your thoughts.
 
-Pete
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psrex
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Re: vintage collectors
« Reply #1 on: Oct 22nd, 2004, 9:08pm »
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I'm not sure what a vintage specific site could add that isn't already covered by browsing an online Magic store or by a site such as themanadrain.com.  If there is more to be shown I would love to be proven wrong.
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Siddhartha
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Re: vintage collectors
« Reply #2 on: Oct 22nd, 2004, 9:39pm »
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psrex -- That's basically the question I'm asking. Is a site like this useful?
 
I collected Magic back when it first came out, and until recently I had forgotten about it. Since rediscovering my cards on a recent trip home, I've gotten back into collecting the old sets, but the new ones don't really appeal to me. Is there a community of players/collectors who are interested solely in vintage? Would a site that focuses only on a few specific sets be able to provide more in-depth and centralized information? I'm looking for a fun personal project and whatever it turns out to be, I intend to invest considerable effort into it.  
 
Thanks for the link. . .if this is the best vintage website out there, there seems to be room for improvement.
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Re: vintage collectors
« Reply #3 on: Oct 22nd, 2004, 9:53pm »
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on Oct 22nd, 2004, 9:39pm, Siddhartha wrote:

Thanks for the link. . .if this is the best vintage website out there, there seems to be room for improvement.

 
If you could create a site devoted solely to trading for vintage collectors, where you could somehow enforce strict grading of cards, I can see it being a draw for Vintage collectors.  MOTL has such a wide range of traders that it is difficult to wade through and find vintage collections without doing tedious card-by-card searching.  As far as I know themanadrain.com doesn't address trading, but it is clearly be the best T1 discussion forum that I have found.
 
I have personally found that the easiest way to 'trade' for vintage cards is to sell on Ebay and then buy what I need.  If you could lure people like me back into trading by making it easy and cutting out Ebay fees then you would certainly have the beginning of a useful site.
 
Where would you draw the line for vintage sets?  At Legends?
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Siddhartha
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Re: vintage collectors
« Reply #4 on: Oct 22nd, 2004, 10:11pm »
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I think you're right that it would be a great draw, but  at this time mediating trades is outside the scope of what I want to do. It's easy enough to create a forum, and the site would certainly have one, but enforcing certain grading standards (or anything else) in regards to online trading sounds like a nightmare.
 
Incidentally, I am and always have been much more a collector than a player, and the site will no doubt reflect that.  Any information on playing type 1, etc, will have to come from the prospective forum memebers.
 
I personally consider vintage to be anything from 93-94, except Fallen Empires. That's Alpha, Beta, Unlimited, Revised, Arabian Nights, Antiquities, Legends and The Dark. I recognize that not all vintage is created equal--I only collect Alpha and Arabians, myself. How the site itself defines vintage will, i suppose, depend on prospective readers.
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silver.paladin
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Re: vintage collectors
« Reply #5 on: Oct 22nd, 2004, 11:02pm »
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Good afternoon Sidd, good to see you again! Wink
 
I would like to suggest for Vintage, that Legends should be included as well, just because Legends is not only back near that time frame, but it was a set of special cards that can be used to help identify a deck to play. I agree with the other sets you mention, I just feel that Legends ought to be included as well.
 
just my two pennies
 
How can it be?  I read Sidd's post 3 times, and I just did not see Legends on it at all.  I'm sure its got to be either Alzeihmers or blindness.  The aging process just is not fair!  
« Last Edit: Oct 23rd, 2004, 12:30am by silver.paladin » IP Logged

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Siddhartha
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Re: vintage collectors
« Reply #6 on: Oct 22nd, 2004, 11:08pm »
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Legends is already on the list. Thanks for the confirmation, tho, it's a great set.
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sylvanstu
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Re: vintage collectors
« Reply #7 on: Oct 23rd, 2004, 3:30am »
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Sid i think you have a great idea. there are a lot of us people out there that would love a sight like that. i disagree on leaving fallen empires out i think it gets a bad rap cause the multiple cards with alt art but there are alot of fun cards to play from that set. i've argued this now for 9 years. it also was the first set to do this and it was an experiment to catch the collectors eye. i bet you would have great debates just about that. get me a link so i can join and have fun there to. can anyone denie that hymms rule.or that gernades back then were funall save more arguement on this for the sight
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l0qii
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Re: vintage collectors
« Reply #8 on: Oct 23rd, 2004, 5:12am »
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There's definately a need for some vintage specific info on the net. I'm not sure exactly what it should have though. Scans of cards are already available. Print run info is available with a little digging. Trade mediating is very time consuming. I personally am slowly working on a vintage ad gallery. It seems to be an area that no other site has delved into yet. Also maybe behind the scenes stories of how the game was created, any stories behind the name/art/text of specific cards, etc would be really cool.
 
I would not include Fallen Empires, even though I side with sylvanstu and say it was a great set with a lot of fun cards. I even hesitate to include The Dark, but always end up including it in the "vintage" catagory. The reason  Iwouldn't include it is because of the popularity of the game, and the supsequent print run of the set. There was more marketing, more players, and there were more cards produced for FE (and also RV I think) at the end of 1994. I my mind it's a distinct end of the "early days" and beginning of the intermediate stage (which I consider everything up to WotC being bought by Hasbro).
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Siddhartha
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Re: vintage collectors
« Reply #9 on: Oct 23rd, 2004, 6:56am »
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Stu and l0qii: I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks a site like this would be cool. Thanks for your encouragement.
 
I agree with both of you that FE was a pretty interesting set, but I have to side with l0qii that due to its massive print run and its relative unpopularity, it doesn't fit the vintage category as I see it. If there were enough call for it I would probably include it, tho.
 
I don't think I would bother with a complete gallery for the reason l0qii mentioned--that's a resource that is easy to find already. The site would be an excellent central location to get the kinds of information we've discussed: print runs, set overviews, obscure facts, vintage ads, forums. . .there are a lot of possibilities.
 
I'd like to mention logistical-type stuff. . .I do actually have a fair start on this site. If I decide to go ahead and complete it, I think it will be decent enough to go public in two weeks. Figure at least a month or two to really shake it out and fine-tune the layout. Adding informaiton will be an evolutionary process that will never really be done, of course. I do have a reseller hosting plan, so posting a new site is not a big undertaking--$13 for the domain and a day or two for dns resolution is all it takes.
 
If any more of you guys support this, please give us your thoughts. You can be part of the site from the beginning and help guide its progress. I already know my ideas, but knowing what others want to see from the site will help it to succeed. If you DON'T think it's a good idea, I'd also love to hear why.
 
Thanks to those of you who have already replied. Your enthusiasm really helps make it worth while.
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buster8001
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Re: vintage collectors
« Reply #10 on: Oct 23rd, 2004, 9:22am »
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i think this would be awesome. i am in the same boat, i just found my card in boxes after i moved. i was mutch more of a collector than a player. but i have to disagree, due to ruleings and block format(starting with ice age) one would almost have to include fallen empires, dispite numbers. its still vintage. anyway this site would be most welcomed. good luck
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Muldoon
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Re: vintage collectors
« Reply #11 on: Oct 23rd, 2004, 1:49pm »
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After giving this some thought, I think it's a good idea too. It really doesn't have an online "home" like it deserves.
The forum would have to be quite elitist though, to prevent it from going overboard. I hope it will work out nicely, because then i'll have a new place to frequent.
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sylvanstu
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Re: vintage collectors
« Reply #12 on: Oct 23rd, 2004, 4:52pm »
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well when you get the sight rolling that could be one of the first things we discuse and debate should FE be included
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srljstr
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Re: vintage collectors
« Reply #13 on: Oct 23rd, 2004, 5:50pm »
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I think you have to define what you mean by Vintage. Are you meaning older sets and a specific time period, when Vintage was everything in the game and 'type 2' was everything in the game minus the A/B/U cards not reprinted in Revised, or are you meaning competitive Vintage cardpool? From your posts I'd think it's the former, because a majority of the most broken cards in Vintage come from 'recent era' Magic, ala Urza's forward. You have the amazing accel of P9, Workshop, Mana Drain, etc in the older sets, but it's newer cards like Goblin Welder, Sundering Titan, Decree of Justice, etc. that take advantage of the older cards the most.  
 
My collection tends to resemble what is ultimately playable and or techy in Vintage. Basically if it's playable, or has potential to be playable I collect it, in foil playsets ultimately. I can build any Vintage deck you post, so My interest in digging through something like MOTL is small, but were there a Vintage only site where people were posting for sale/trade cards that are priorities in the format I would visit it often, as it caters to and invigorates the format.
 
I really believe such a niche site could be worthwhile, as long as it was strictly monitored in the same manner that The Mana Drain is.
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Siddhartha
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Re: vintage collectors
« Reply #14 on: Oct 23rd, 2004, 6:31pm »
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srljstr: if you take another look you'll find that I have defined vintage as 93-94 sets (with the possible exception of FE). Although I'm sure there are some great cards in all the other sets you mention, I don't know anything about them. Once again, the playability of cards is not really something I give a lot of thought to--I'm a collector.
 
I would like your further thoughts on what it means for the site to be "strictly monitored". . .I guess you mean the forums? I have no idea how the mana drain operates, having just heard of it. I will of course monitor the forums, and if they become successful, appoint moderators who can help keep things running smoothly. . .is that strict monitoring?
 
Regarding Fallen Empires, I'm going to take sylanstu's advice and let the first members hash out whether it should be included.
 
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